Participant ID: P02
Pseudonym: James
Age: 28
Gender: Man
Occupation: Software developer (remote, full-time)
Living situation: Lives alone in a one-bedroom condo in Coquitlam
Relevant context: Has worked fully remote for 3.5 years; moved companies twice in that time
Interview date: 2025-10-21
Interview length: 38 minutes
Interviewer: R2
Location: Zoom

---

I: Thanks for jumping on, James. Can you tell me a bit about yourself to start?

P: Yeah, no problem. So I'm a back-end developer, I work for a fintech startup based in Toronto, I've been remote since 2022 basically, since the pandemic. Um, I live by myself, I'm in Coquitlam, and yeah. That's me.

I: When you hear the word loneliness, what comes to mind?

P: [pause] Yeah, so I've actually thought about this a lot, weirdly enough. Like, when I signed up for this study I was like, oh, I should probably figure out what I actually mean by it. And I think for me loneliness is the gap between the version of social interaction I have and the version I think I should have. So like, I talk to people all day. Slack, video calls, Discord with my gaming friends in the evenings. I have so many conversations. But there's this — there's this thing where you finish a workday and you close your laptop and the apartment is just, like, silent. And the silence feels louder because of all the talking before it. So I think loneliness for me is that silence. The contrast.

I: That's a really specific way of putting it. How does it feel in your body?

P: Um. Mostly in my chest, I guess? Like a heaviness. I also notice it in — okay, this is weird, but I notice it in how I eat. Like when I'm lonely I just stand at the counter and eat, like, cereal out of the box. I don't make food. And then I feel worse, because now I'm a guy standing alone in his kitchen eating Cheerios. So it has, like, a physical signature, yeah.

I: Is loneliness different from being alone for you?

P: Oh, very different. I love being alone. Like, I'm an introvert in the actual sense, not the meme sense. I recharge by being by myself. But loneliness is — yeah. Loneliness is when I'm by myself and I don't want to be. So it's about agency, maybe. Like, alone-by-choice versus alone-by-default.

I: When does it tend to show up?

P: Sundays. Sundays are the worst. Because the week is over, and Monday hasn't started, and there's just — there's nothing structuring the day. Saturdays are fine because I do, like, errands and stuff. But Sundays I'll just be in my apartment from like noon onwards and it gets bad. Also when I have to eat alone at restaurants for some reason, but I do that less. Um. And after — okay, this is going to sound silly, but after I finish a really good show, I get lonely. Because I'm grieving the show. [laughs] I know that's ridiculous.

I: It's not ridiculous. People talk about that a lot. Has the pandemic or any other event changed your loneliness?

P: I mean, yeah, obviously. So I went remote in 2022, which is when everyone went remote, and at first it was great, because I'd been hating the commute. And then it just — it gradually got worse without me noticing. Like, you boil the frog. By 2024 I was, like, in a bad place. I didn't have any friends in my building. I didn't have any reason to leave my apartment. My partner at the time and I broke up around then, and after she moved out it was just — yeah. It was a lot.

I: What did you do?

P: I, um. So a few things. I joined a board game group on Meetup. That was huge actually. It's the same six guys every Wednesday, we play, like, two-hour board games, and it's basically the only in-person social interaction I have most weeks. I also got a therapist, which I should have done years before. And I started forcing myself to work from coffee shops a couple days a week. That helps even when I don't talk to anyone, just to have other humans in the room.

I: Anything that didn't work?

P: Yeah, I tried — I went really hard on dating apps for a while. Like, two years ago. And it made it so much worse. Because you'd have like three good conversations going at once and then they'd all just evaporate, and you'd feel like — okay, this is going to sound bitter, but you'd feel like a piece of content that someone scrolled past. And it would compound the loneliness because now you had evidence that you couldn't even hold someone's attention. So I quit the apps. I don't know if that's a permanent decision but it was the right one for now.

I: What do you think your loneliness is telling you?

P: That my job and my life aren't structured for what I actually need. Like — humans are not supposed to spend ten hours a day in a 600 square foot box looking at a screen. I think we know this now. The pandemic taught us this. But the financial logic of my job is such that going back into an office would mean changing jobs, taking a pay cut, et cetera. So I'm caught between, like, what I know is good for me and what makes economic sense. And the loneliness is the price of the choice I'm making. I think about that a lot, honestly.

I: Do you tell other people you're lonely?

P: Not really. I told my therapist. I told my mom once and she got really upset, which made me regret telling her. I haven't told my friends. I think — guys don't really, in my experience. Like my board game group, we'd never have that conversation. We'll talk about, like, Eldritch Horror strategy for two hours but not about how we're actually doing. Which is its own kind of loneliness I guess.

I: If you could change one thing about how society handles loneliness, what would it be?

P: I think — okay, I have a real answer. I think the framing of loneliness as a personal failing is the worst part of it. Like, society treats loneliness as something pathetic, something to hide. So everyone hides it. And then everyone thinks they're the only one. Which makes it worse. I'd want — I don't know, I'd want it to be more like, hey, you're lonely? Yeah, me too, most people are, it's a structural thing, let's go do something. Instead of the current situation where everyone's lonely separately. [laughs] Anyway, that's my TED talk.

I: Thank you, James. Anything I haven't asked about?

P: Just — yeah. Just, I think a lot of the studies I've read about loneliness focus on old people. Which is fine, I'm sure that's important. But there's a lot of us in our 20s and 30s who are quietly drowning, and nobody's looking. So. I guess that's why I signed up.
